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	<title>Comments on: 10% continued</title>
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		<title>By: climbingupblog</title>
		<link>http://culturallyirrelevant.com/2009/10/15/10-continued/#comment-150</link>
		<dc:creator>climbingupblog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Oct 2009 00:19:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>You&#039;re welcome for the feedback.  I like your blog.

I&#039;ll preface my reply here by saying I am offering opinions, not statements. I&#039;m not an &quot;expert witness.&quot;

My definition of a guiding principle is that it is a good and logical general baseline that produces a certain positive result.

I would not call tithing a rule or training wheels unless you are hog-tied to 10% as a matter of conscience.  In that case, maybe the person should give 20% just to make sure they are OK with God. ;-)

What is clear to me is that giving of some sort is an integral part of living in Christ.

There is also a well-known principle of saving 10% of for a rainy day.  I&#039;m not saying that is in the Bible, but many people consider it wise practice.  If you apply it you get a certain benefit.  Discipline itself is not a weakness.

Now if you consider both tithing 10% and saving 10% excellent principles to apply, you still have to ask what the odds are that all people can live on 80% of what they earn?

Some people depend on gifts just to survive.  Others take first class vacations to Aspen and Hawaii.  The only way to get the training wheels off is to give what makes godly sense given the resources you have and the strength of your faith.

Many others disagree with my opinion about tithing.  They view 10% as a minimum to live by.  I don&#039;t know if that&#039;s off the gross or the net, pre-tax or after-tax... but in their view it is a matter of faith and applying God&#039;s word.  They would say that not giving at least 10% shows a lack of faith in God to provide.  They view the 10% tithe as a &quot;generally accepted accounting principle&quot; (Google that if you&#039;re not familiar with the term).

I may be wrong and they may be right.  All I can say is their view doesn&#039;t make perfect sense to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re welcome for the feedback.  I like your blog.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll preface my reply here by saying I am offering opinions, not statements. I&#8217;m not an &#8220;expert witness.&#8221;</p>
<p>My definition of a guiding principle is that it is a good and logical general baseline that produces a certain positive result.</p>
<p>I would not call tithing a rule or training wheels unless you are hog-tied to 10% as a matter of conscience.  In that case, maybe the person should give 20% just to make sure they are OK with God. ;-)</p>
<p>What is clear to me is that giving of some sort is an integral part of living in Christ.</p>
<p>There is also a well-known principle of saving 10% of for a rainy day.  I&#8217;m not saying that is in the Bible, but many people consider it wise practice.  If you apply it you get a certain benefit.  Discipline itself is not a weakness.</p>
<p>Now if you consider both tithing 10% and saving 10% excellent principles to apply, you still have to ask what the odds are that all people can live on 80% of what they earn?</p>
<p>Some people depend on gifts just to survive.  Others take first class vacations to Aspen and Hawaii.  The only way to get the training wheels off is to give what makes godly sense given the resources you have and the strength of your faith.</p>
<p>Many others disagree with my opinion about tithing.  They view 10% as a minimum to live by.  I don&#8217;t know if that&#8217;s off the gross or the net, pre-tax or after-tax&#8230; but in their view it is a matter of faith and applying God&#8217;s word.  They would say that not giving at least 10% shows a lack of faith in God to provide.  They view the 10% tithe as a &#8220;generally accepted accounting principle&#8221; (Google that if you&#8217;re not familiar with the term).</p>
<p>I may be wrong and they may be right.  All I can say is their view doesn&#8217;t make perfect sense to me.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Watts</title>
		<link>http://culturallyirrelevant.com/2009/10/15/10-continued/#comment-147</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Watts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 14:37:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thanks for the feedback. I really appreciate that you took the time to read and offer some thoughts. Of course, we&#039;re here to sharpen each other, so let me be honest for a second, and then I&#039;d love to hear where you&#039;re coming from? 

You wouldn&#039;t apply 10% as a rule of law, but as a useful principle, a satisfying guideline. What would that look like in terms of instructing people? How do you teach people that 10% is good but not required? I hear where you&#039;re coming from, and we both agree that giving generously is God&#039;s heart. This thing doesn&#039;t work any other way! 

We also know that God came up with the 10% rule, special offerings, mandatory 3 year tithes, as well as mandatory and free-will sacrifices in the Law designed to take care of people and express faith and worship. We know these things reflect his heart for a giving culture, but now his laws are written on our hearts, like circumcision and sacrifices. If we take care of the heart, living in intimacy with the Father through Jesus, do we still need the principle, or training wheels, of the law in the back of our minds, even if they are as dim as a guideline? Wouldn&#039;t we more than fulfill the requirements of the law out of loving relationship? It&#039;s interesting that Jesus and the other writers of the New Testament never offered these training wheels, but trusted completely in the outcome of connecting people to the Father&#039;s heart through the cross by the power of the Holy Spirit, something the Old Testament folks just didn&#039;t have.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the feedback. I really appreciate that you took the time to read and offer some thoughts. Of course, we&#8217;re here to sharpen each other, so let me be honest for a second, and then I&#8217;d love to hear where you&#8217;re coming from? </p>
<p>You wouldn&#8217;t apply 10% as a rule of law, but as a useful principle, a satisfying guideline. What would that look like in terms of instructing people? How do you teach people that 10% is good but not required? I hear where you&#8217;re coming from, and we both agree that giving generously is God&#8217;s heart. This thing doesn&#8217;t work any other way! </p>
<p>We also know that God came up with the 10% rule, special offerings, mandatory 3 year tithes, as well as mandatory and free-will sacrifices in the Law designed to take care of people and express faith and worship. We know these things reflect his heart for a giving culture, but now his laws are written on our hearts, like circumcision and sacrifices. If we take care of the heart, living in intimacy with the Father through Jesus, do we still need the principle, or training wheels, of the law in the back of our minds, even if they are as dim as a guideline? Wouldn&#8217;t we more than fulfill the requirements of the law out of loving relationship? It&#8217;s interesting that Jesus and the other writers of the New Testament never offered these training wheels, but trusted completely in the outcome of connecting people to the Father&#8217;s heart through the cross by the power of the Holy Spirit, something the Old Testament folks just didn&#8217;t have.</p>
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		<title>By: climbingupblog</title>
		<link>http://culturallyirrelevant.com/2009/10/15/10-continued/#comment-145</link>
		<dc:creator>climbingupblog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 03:51:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://culturallyirrelevant.com/?p=829#comment-145</guid>
		<description>I the only thing I would say is that your church is a fellowship of you and others you have joined with.  Giving is supposed to be a joy and a participation in that fellowship with each other and God.   If nobody gives, it will be a struggle.  If you pay someone to lead that fellowship, they deserve their keep.  So, I&#039;d say give what you can according to the faith God has given you.  I&#039;ve heard it said, &quot;God owns it all and we are stewards.&quot;  Like you, I&#039;m not sure I would apply 10% as a rule of law, but rather as a useful principle; a satisfying guideline.  When we give, the fellowship is blessed and God uses it.  He intended for us to play a role in things... at least that&#039;s how I read the Great Commission.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I the only thing I would say is that your church is a fellowship of you and others you have joined with.  Giving is supposed to be a joy and a participation in that fellowship with each other and God.   If nobody gives, it will be a struggle.  If you pay someone to lead that fellowship, they deserve their keep.  So, I&#8217;d say give what you can according to the faith God has given you.  I&#8217;ve heard it said, &#8220;God owns it all and we are stewards.&#8221;  Like you, I&#8217;m not sure I would apply 10% as a rule of law, but rather as a useful principle; a satisfying guideline.  When we give, the fellowship is blessed and God uses it.  He intended for us to play a role in things&#8230; at least that&#8217;s how I read the Great Commission.</p>
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